Elendor Info

  • Increase font size
  • Default font size
  • Decrease font size

How to Make Friends and Influence People through the Combat System

Short Summary: A lecture on Combat Etiquette and special situations involved with it. Hosted by Faramir with the assistance of the members of the audience. Special thanks to Azridan and Rorgan and the other sarcastic members of the class.
Date (real-life): 2002-01-21
Scene Location: +GOOC

How to Make Friends and Influence People through the Combat System


A lecture on Combat Etiquette and special situations involved with it. Hosted by Faramir with the assistance of the members of the audience. Special thanks to Azridan and Rorgan and the other sarcastic members of the class.


Dramatis Personae:


Many Others…


You have entered the lands of JRR Tolkien's imagination...


Gondor OOC Room(#23167RM)


Ah the grandeur! The opulence! Indeed, this is what you feel when you step into this room far above that realm of Gondor. You stand in the OOC room of the Gondorians. Very interesting place, there are a few tables scattered about obviously for people to gossip about their latest IC or OOC adventures. Against the wall sits a dart board, hanging from it, the picture of the latest scapegoat.


Veritably all aspects of Gondor come here merging into a fine mosaic of what this culture is: its deep history is depicted in ancient tapestries on the walls. Its power shown by proud banners of the Lords of the Realm from Pelargir to Dol Amroth. Its fine culture is shown by the detailed work on the benches and tables scattered throughout the room.


Table code is in effect here. Type thelp for table commands.











Gondor Salary Machine and Training Object(#26937OXh)

The Gondor Cup(#148SXn)


Faramir hits a few of you with his briefcase.


You say, "Okay, I guess this is all we're getting."


You say, "Okay, let's begin... Welcome to Andy’s Class on General Combat Etiquette and Obtuse Situations."


You say, "There are basically two levels of Etiquette in any combat situation involving more than two players.


First, there is the general agreement on battle order, whether it is RP-only or the Combat System default. In either case, the sequence of poses and actions, how the players interact is divided between individuals and the group."


You say, "In the individual case, there is generally two combatants who are interacting with each other in an attack-riposte pose order. Whether using the CS or engaging in strict RP, there will always be differences in opinion about what actions have actually occurred.


This is especially true in the situation that we'll find tomorrow night, when we're facing the Mordain. For some reason, Orcs like being wounded or like giving severe wounds to their opponents. This isn't the case with many of our players. I myself generally pose any wounds I receive as striking places other than where they say they've aimed their strike.


The etiquette involved in such a situation involves the rule that we as players are allowed to control our action. So, do not allow other players to pose for you, and try not to pose other player's wounds."


You say, "That difference of opinion is the greatest cause of strife in combat situations between, two players engaged in combat. I recommend trying to avoid it tomorrow night. If unavoidable at least be apologetic. ;)"


You say, "Okay, before I go on to group etiquette, and I will be covering a point Arathil brought up in this section, are there any questions about this part of combat etiquette?"


Rorgan would just like to make sure that everyone understands just how important that last point Faramir made was. :)


Rorgan says, "The one about your character being yours to control and remembering that everyone else's is theirs to control."


Rorgan says, "That's a point that not only holds for combat RP (CS or otherwise), but RP in general."


You say, "Would anybody like to see an example?"


You say, "Okay, good. We'll take Lini's question first."


Eliniel says, "I understand your point, about not trying to pose the other person's injury. But is it still ok to say where you're aiming in your own pose? So long as you don't pose yourself actually scoring the hit?"


You say, "Yes. Not only does that help your opponent to make his riposte pose, but it also shows your movement and position as the attacker. For those that use weighting, the striking pose is sometimes used to reflect this also. attack/3 is less vicious and more precise than an attack/7, for instance."


Celemagor says, "Not a question but more of a comment and please correct me if needed. As a player we have the power to control the outcome of what happens to us. But when possible, I think we should try and RP with what our opponent poses as often as we can. For example, if they say they thrust at your shoulder, don't go saying you got hit to the leg. On the other hand, when they pose swinging at your head...well, unless you really want your head to roll, you can pose being hit somewhere else."


"But always remember to pose something that is possible. Don't pose getting hit at the leg instead of the head. Also, although you can somehow change were you are getting hit, you may not change the severity of the hit (when using the CS)."


Rorgan nods, "That's a very good point as well. I'll volunteer for you to set an example on, Andy, if you need someone."


You say, "True, always be realistic. But you'll find it's hard to read everything in your opponent's pose because these battle rooms can get very spammy."


You say, "A point I should make is that sometimes disagreements occur that is not due to a breach of etiquette so much as a misreading or just bad poses in general."


You say, "Alright, Rorgan. Can you make a pose that shows what you're talking about?"


Rorgan agrees totally, "Usually, if you're in doubt about what you think you read, you can always page your opponent to get things clarified. you don't get points taken away for being slow." <posing now>


Roaring as he charges across the field, Rorgan chops off Faramir's head.

Rorgan says, "You did say negative. :>"


You say, "Okay, that's primarily what happens. Yeah. There was a famous example of a Harad warrior who slew Imrahil's honor guard and chopped off the Prince's head, all in one pose. ;)"


Rorgan nods, "Or the orc in the Pelinnor FF that was launching his companions at and slaughtering Eomer and the FotR."


Rorgan says, "with a catapault."


Azridan wonders, "How about a correct example Andy?"


Rorgan can do a correct one. :)


His voice roaring into the din of the battle, Rorgan raises his sword high above his head and holds his shield in tight as his blade comes singing in a downward arc right at Faramir's head!


You say, "It's up to you how to respond. Okay, a point was brought up by Argamir about multiple actions in a pose... Let me show you an example."


Leaping the shield wall, Faramir runs towards Rorgan swinging his sword wildly. He spins! His sword archs up, seeking to pierce the Gondorian's sword arm. Yet, lo! before it finds flesh, the blade snakes down looking for the legs.


Oh, what mastery!


You say, "Now, if I used the attack command, that might result in a wound Rorgan would have to RP. But what was wrong with that pose?"


Corwinil says, "WEll, you seem to have both parried a thrust overhead and made your own attack.. all in one pose."


Ostrondo says, "You also assumed that the first attack would have no counteraction that would affect your second attempt."


Isiliel says, "What I see... You just jumped. Balance should be off. You're swinging wildly, thus not specific attacks. You changed your swing mid-stride, impossible unless wielding scimis"


Celemagor says, "You jumped over a shield wall"


Arathil says, "I think the topic here is multiple actions in a single pose. The time it would've taken Andy to do all that is significant. Meanwhile, what is the opponent supposed to be doing? Standing there watching? Looking cool? No, in that time he could've run away, attacked somebody else, etc., but he wasn't given the chance to do so. Time was stolen from the opponent."


You say, "Yes. Well, the most obvious point is the leap, charge and spin. The changing direction of attack was more ambiguous. You don't know how I was swinging my sword because I didn't describe it."


You say, "Exactly, Arathil. I believe Lini had a question?"


You say, "And then we'll move on to the group etiquette discussion."


Eliniel says, "Eliniel blinks...oh, I remember. How detailed should your pose be? I mean, in a large scene with lots of players, you don't need to write an epic, correct? Just be as specific regarding your movements as possible. They were joking about hair blowing, etc, but how much of that stuff do you really need to include?"


Isiliel says, "You want enough detail, so that it's easy to 'see' what you're doing. But don't overdo it, as it'll bog down the scene. Basically, rule of thumb on performing anything in combat rp, that I go by. If I can't see it, or 'do' it, then it's not possible for IC."


You say, "Well, Rorgan's 'correct' example was what you'll sometimes see. I generally like to put momentum, direction I am moving and direction of my weapon in my pose. But some players," look in Indy's direction, "just pose a general sword-swing. ;)"


Argamir says, "Facial expression is sometimes included, but not really necessary... just to justify the intensity of an attack usually..."


Eliniel says, "So as long as you say what -needs- to be said... you're good."


Rorgan says, "If there are fewer players involved, you can afford to go into more detail."


Corwinil says, "Is there a problem with poses "gettig lost in the screen scroll"?"


You say, "Yes. Some players will complain if you don't RP your wounds. But sometimes there just isn't enough time to make the correction. If I am too wounded to continue, I will type FLEE. But generally, my characters are masked and all that I have to show emotion and pain are my eyes. It's up to you whether you choose to show emotion, but typically you'll be wearing a helm and your face won't be visible. Just keep that in mind."


Rorgan says, "Sometimes, Cor. Usually people will ask you to page them what you just posed when that happens, and you should do the same if you think you've missed something and you can't scroll back to see what it was."


Degiaras has lost a few, but that's usually cuz he forgets to comhaven before he starts RPing. Usually your opponent is watching for your pose, but it really helps if you throw a name in there.


You say, "Good point. Okay, shall we continue to the last point?"


Rorgan says, "Set yourself nospoof -- it helps identify the posers, if, like me, they're prone to leave their names out of their poses."


You say, "Okay, now for group etiquette. We'll get to the questions after this section, Isi. ;)"


You say, "In group situations, especially in rooms with many players, it's hard to keep track of what everybody's doing, how far apart they are and how the field of battle is arranged.


This becomes a problem when groups are using archers. I've seen it many times that the bowmen were posed beyond the reach of the enemy force (such as being behind the front line of troops and so unreachable except through them) but they were immediately attacked after maybe two poses by attackers.


There's little that can be done about this situation besides taking it too far out of proportion to be useful. Tactically, bowmen take a lot of the fun out of it for the players getting shot at. Generally, what ends up happening is that your bowmen shoot at their bowmen and nobody seems to mind except the ones that get hit with more arrows than the others."


Indilzar says, "Though we have tried ways to make it a bit more realistic at times... but it takes effort."


You say, "Another situation that comes about in group situation is 'double teaming' where one character will have multiple attackers. This sometimes cannot be helped either, especially if you have +training that allows you to take on more than one attacker of lesser strength. Should you find yourself in this situation and have difficulty, you can deal with it ICly: shout for help! ;) Or you can try to flee.


Just keep in mind that you always need to have flexibility in combat situations, otherwise every Rped battle would end up being arbed... and everybody hates being arbed."


Rorgan says, "Especially since, in most cases when an arbiter is involved, neither party gets what they want... It's usually better to try to cooperate and come to a compromise on your own terms, but sometimes you'll need help to do that, and the Arbs can be a great assistance in that."


You say, "But in general, like Indy said, there are ways to deal with this situation but it takes effort and can be bogged down by one of the parties not following along.


An example was the Poros campaign where we had a nice fort all desced and we were prepared for a siege but the Haradrim felt they could take liberties that they wouldn't allow us. For some reason, they felt they should have the ability to completely wipe us out using devices such as catapults that could throw hot sand that could hit us even though it was beyond the range of our arrows.


Other things as well... I can't remember exactly, but they claimed to be able to see everything day or night that happened outside the walls of the fort, as well."


You say, "Oh, yes... Nazgul."


Rorgan chuckles, "Even as Boromir, Nazgul are scary. ICly and OOCly..."


You say, "Okay, I guess that's it for the Group Etiquette part. I can talk a bit about +sneak and nazgul and other points of interest later if you'd like. But we'll have questions now. I guess Isi's up first, and then Ost?"


Isiliel says, "Okay... in combat, again.. if you can't see it, or do it, it can't be done. Even Masters get hurt, so don't try to claim you're untouchable. You cannot see EVERY hit that is coming, so don't even pretend that you can. When you do get hurt, your timing will be off, you may be off-balance, etc. Don't forget this. Being cut by a sword HURTS. Also, you'll be wearing armor, and wielding a heavy sword/shield(Just for reference, a light longsword is around 10-pounds, most chainmail weighs about 40lbs, shields about 10 or more pounds)... The longer the battle, the more tired you become, and the more sluggish your swings. ... Also, know your weapon of choice. The force needed to cut off a limb using a longsword... well, is nigh impossible, and exposes you fully to attack. So don't do it. ;)"


[Combat(#13388)] Indilzar reaches down to the hilt of his blade and a sudden light flashes! Then his eyes kindle to madness as the blood of his fathers runs hot and fierce, for now in his hands is Bragoangurth, the Steely Sword of Sudden Death! Beware all foes of the Bragollach, for vengeance shall come upon thee!


You say, "Well, that's a point. But alot can be said for adrenaline. But being in combat is rather like being a boxer in a boxing match, it gets wearisome. Yes, and bloodlust too, thanks Indy. ;)"


Azridan nods, "Regardless, the sword after even 5 minutes of battle will tire your arm out, your swings will be slower and more easier to predict."


Rorgan nods, "And +cstats will give you a very good idea of your character's encumbrance level, once you're combat approved and have the equipment to lug around."


Ostrondo says, "I was just wondering, in that Harad example, what tghe recourse is for when a group tries to twink like that?"


Rorgan says, "Usually you will need to get their LAs involved (unless they already are, in which case, you're pretty much stuck with an arbiter's decision)."


You say, "Well, that's the problem with group etiquette problems. You either have to have patience or just abandone the combat unless you want to bring in the arbs, which I don't see as helping in a group situation. Unless Kel has something to contribute to that situation.


Yeah, go through your LAs, always. Thanks Rorg."


You say, "If you're not an LA and there are no LAs online to consult in a combat situation in which your enemy wants to make a 'request'...


Just say 'no!'"


Eliniel says, "In Lorien, when we face up against Moria, we spend a lot of time before the scene even starts agreeing on things like whether they'll(or we) allow fleeing, and at what point in the combat. Or anyone who plans to kill their char wills peak up then, too. How much should be discussed OOCly before starting the scene?"


Celemagor says, "Usually, things are taken care off by the organizers of the RP (on big scenes usually LAs)"


You say, "Oh, right... That brings up a point about free-flees. I'm divided on this issue. I'm fine if they need it. I also think it's required in any situation where we've got alot of RP-only players.


But OOC discussions about the combat should be given over to those in charge. That's what I mean about just denying requests when you're not an LA."


You say, "So, basically let the organizers or someone in charge handle those arrangements, exactly Ic."


Azridan says, "As a first time bowman, i was wondering... does the attack weighting system have any difference in attacks against opponents?"


You say, "For archers?"


Azridan nods


You say, "Not that I know of. As a bowman, all you need to worry about is that your poses correspond with a character... It's generally a good policy if you ask the person you're planning to shoot if they would mind getting shot out.

It sounds a bit cheeky, but it doesn't hurt. Also, keep in mind that the lower your +training in bow the longer it will take you between attempted shots."


You say, "Okay, if there aren't any other questions, I can go on to special topics like +sneak and nazgul, if you'd like. Are there any questions?"


You say, "Okay, I'll say a word about Nazgul, then."


You say, "You'll be inclined to want to RP your resistance to the fear inspired by the Nazgul. My own position on this matter is that you should ignore them if you don't know what else to do. Otherwise, indicate that you're being affected by their presence, their screams, etc. Shudder a couple times, etc.


If they're close enough to make you fall flat on your face, the guy you're fighting should be doing the exact same thing, anyway.


Otherwise, let your BFCs or Dunedain take care of it. If they're not around, FLEE. ;)"


Azridan says, "Nazgul blades, for the newbies among us to combat vs. Nazgul's... What do they do to a person? I was reading an earlier OOC class on wounds that said they are poisoned?."


You say, "Thematically, those without the 'strength of will' to resist - i.e., not Dunedain or BFCS - should be reduced to jelly in the act of fear and shouldn't come close enough to take arms against them. But, if you do end up fighting them, I suppose you'd see symptoms such as those that Eowyn, Faramir and Meridoc have while in the HoH after the Battle of the Pelennor."


You say, "But, like I said, 'normal' players shouldn't get near enough to try it, thematically."


Eliniel notes that while kingsfoil/athelas is an IC herb in gondor, it can only be used by a Master Healer or better. Technically, we still think it's for headaches, since only Aragorn could use it properly anyway. So your chances of recovery from a Nazgul wound are probably pretty miniscule.


You say, "Last point is on +sneak..."


You say, "A special point of interest, for me at least, involves the use of +sneak. In a recent training RP I finally figured out how it works.


If your +sneak succeeds, nobody in the room you're entering will see your oenters (Faramir enters from the north - for instance). In that case, the code will make a stat-check against every player's INT to see if your character is spotted. If spotted, those players will see ARB: You have seen Faramir attempting a +sneak into the room - or something along those lines. If you're not spotted, nobody sees anything, but your character will show up in the room's content list."


You say, "If your +sneak fails, everybody sees the oenters (Faramir enters from the north) and there is no ARB message. So, everybody sees you basically, even though you're trying to be sneaky.


Just remember, whatever the case, always pose your stealth. If possible, require that people respect your stealth, also. Sometimes, a room can be shaped in a way to make it hard for you to be seen, but that has to be agreed OOCly with your opponents. Basically, I think +sneak etiquette is the hardest point of the arbitrary systems on this MU*, I still have yet to find a way to make this work. But just be aware that if you're considering the use of +sneak, you'll run into certain problems."


Celemagor says, "I never used +sneak in combat before, but I have always wondered how could you take advantage? You can't pose attacking someone directly on your first pose, thus you have to ICly make your way towards them. As soon as you pose that, chances are the other players will pose seing you. As we do not get a message if our +sneak failed on someone, how can successfully sneak on someone during a battle?"


You say, "Well, the word on +sneak is basically that you're covered as long as you pose yourself to remain hidden. The tricky part is that the other party may not agree that you could stealthfully make your way into a position to attack them, which completely removes your advantage.


Also, it's hard to tell whether or not you've been discovered or they're just twinking and saying they see you. Like, I said, I haven't figured out a workable way of dealing with this situation in a combat situation, but I'm working on it. ;)"


You say, "Generally, I've not found one situation where one of the players I've +sneak'ed into a room with has gone undiscovered. And it is generally assumed that if one is seen everyone is seen."


Rorgan risks making a point that's totally out of order, but you should keep in mind that your goals and the goals of your 'opponents' are the same: to have fun RPing. In that regard, everyone on the MUSH should be 'on the same team'. :)


You say, "Well, the general goal, yes. But what their interpretation of 'fun' may be completely opposite theirs. That's where etiquette comes in."


Azridan wonders, "You talked about Dunedain, whom do you speak of when you use that term... i know it was the name for the men of Numenor, but technically, arent we all desceneded from numenor?"


You say, "When I use the term 'Dunedain' I'm refering to those holding the 'Dunadan Gondorian' species."


Rorgan says, "Right, Fara... I guess I'm just saying that part of the etiquette for me is also remembering to be polite (and sometimes even nice) OOCly."


You say, "But there might be objections about non-BFC resistance of the Nazgul, so I suggest to defer to the BFCs first, Dunedain second."


You say, "This is more a theme issue than an etiquette issue, really. But, they really shouldn't be springing Nazgul on you if you have noone there that can meet them. If they do, FLEE immediately."


You say, "I figure that's the best way to deal with that situation."


You say, "Another point, going off of Rorg's last comment. You might find that these situations that however polite you're being, you'll be though 'belligerent' or some other thing that you had no intention of communicating. Even if you use smileys.


Just be patient and polite as possible, but remember even if it is a game, some people look on it as a real battle and you should never give away your advantages without gaining one in return.


That last point is pretty much about the OOC arrangements and if you end up being in a position where you have to negotiate."


Rorgan nods, "Remember that most of our enemies get a BIG advantages for fighting at night -- that's a big one not to let them have without getting something pretty good in return."


Rorgan says, "Yeah.. The eternal question: how can you fight and hold up a lantern at the same time?"


You say, "Yes, let me address the +light'ing issue, now that it's been brought up."


You say, "Battles last very long. Sometimes they last long enough that the +time goes from daylight to nighttime in the middle of a pose.


The problem with that is that as soon as you get the message: Night-time takes over. You become completely blind, losing whatever advantage you had in the beginning.


How you deal with this situation, you should also leave up to your OOC superiors. Basically, someone will pose having torches lit or setting a fire or something. It's hard to deal with because the battle may not or should not have lasted all day.


Tomorrow we shouldn’t have that problem since the +time at around 18h is just around dawn."


Rorgan says, "If the other side agrees, an arbiter can SET the light in a particular room (it's called a 'timewarp') to either day or night."


You say, "And yes, if they agree we can do that."


Rorgan says, "Or if it happens to change mid-pose. :) You can always ask for a pause to sort it out.""


Eliniel says, "A quick note for those of you who use the CS. If you have an arrow in you, let your +healer know right away, because your +heal will fail if the arrow isn't removed first, and you will keep losing HPs."


You say, "Okay, well, since there are no questions, I would like to thank you all for attending this class and I hope it will prove useful. Thank you.

I will be closing the log, now. ;)"


You say, "Thank you Azridan for proctoring the questions."

Date added: 2014-04-07 13:18:28    Hits: 96
Powered by Sigsiu.NET RSS Feeds